You look at OpenAI and how they don't release their models mainly because they fear "bad people" will use them for "bad stuff." This is the trend in the west. Technology is too powerful, we must control it! Russia is like... Hey, we are the bad guys you're talking about so who are we keeping this technology from? The west has bigger language models than we do, so who cares. Also their attitude to copyright and patents, etc. They don't care because that's not how their economy makes money. Cory Doctorow's end of general purpose computing and locked down everything is very fast approaching. I'm glad the Russians are around and aren't very interested in that project.
This is an interesting take given the political censorship in Russia (for some ineffable reason much harsher now than it used to be 4 months ago) and cases like https://twitter.com/kevinrothrock/status/1510944781492531208.
I sincerely have deep respect for Yandex for releasing this, and Baidu for some of the amazing research they've released over the years, but both are deeply deeply beholden to their local governments in a way that is incomparable to the relationship between Google and the US government.
Remember that the NSA was literally digging up and tapping fiber around Google data centers in a secret program called MUSCULAR because they didn't think Google was being cooperative enough when handing over data that they were requesting.
Yandex: 9M results. The top two links are pretty suspect. Top link promotes Dinesh D'Souza's 2000 Mules documentary in the banner which at best is a one-sided take on election fraud. At worst, very misleading.
Secondly, I've yet to see any criticisms of 2000 mules data that aren't addressed by the stringency in the analysis they claim to have done.
I thought the information they presented was extremely valuable. Are we going to overturn an election at this point? No. But the vulnerabilities to the mail-in ballots were obvious, then lied about, then ignored, then clearly taken advantage of. I want to live in a democracy because voting matters. I especially don't want NPO's destroying this by taking advantage of flawed voting infrastructure.
If there are legitimate criticisms of the methods, the data, or anything else coming out of this film I expect a legitimate presentation that can break it down using the actual data in question. All I've seen so far is shilling and gas-lighting.
If you have any evidence, any evidence at all, of significant mail-in ballots fraud, then you should write it up and publish it; and even present it to the USDOJ, because you would have succeeded where Trump's highly-paid teams of lawyers failed.
If you don't have proof, then please STFU.
I personally believe (with obviously no proof) there was definitely fraud going on, on both sides. With such an archaic system and such a great economic and power incentive, you would be stupid not to do it. For sure mail in ballots made it even easier than in the past.
I've heard about Russian hacking the elections after Trump won for a good 2 years.
I didn't even hear about 2000 Mules until I heard some right wing commentator talk about it months after it was released.
Instead I'm shoved the latest Greta Thunberg song (You can shove your climate crisis up you **) 5 milliseconds after she sung it.
As an avid newspaper and news reader, the media bias shifted tremendously in the last 30 years.
Or maybe that means Dinesh D’Souza is really the most qualified on election fraud since he has done it himself???
What I'm trying to say is that even if you believe that "was the 2020 US election stolen?" is worth debating, which it isn't, the yandex results are shit.
Btw Wikipedia’s first few sentences on Breitbart are not inspiring
> Its journalists are widely considered to be ideologically driven, and much of its content has been called misogynistic, xenophobic, and racist by liberals and traditional conservatives alike. The site has published a number of conspiracy theories and intentionally misleading stories.
An absurd example of this fallacy would be, Wikipedia, which you cite, has articles that indicate tobacco smoking may cause disease. The nazis were also anti-smoking. Therefore Wikipedia is Nazi propaganda and you should not trust anything on there.
If Breitbart pulled a Fox News and argued in court that their goal was to entertain and not inform, then you have a point! But until then, you have a terrible misunderstanding of journalistic integrity and what it means for a publisher to attach their name to a journalist's work.
I take it that you're either too young or too untraveled to be aware of the level of state control of technology in "the east". Xerographic machines, mimeographs, and other similar reprographic devices used to be highly controlled machinery behind the Iron Curtain. This is absolutely not something exclusive or even peculiar to "the west".
FYI, they are Russian subject that follows ALL their censorship laws (and oh boy do they have a lot of it).
>> probably to perhaps to prevent western competitors from using them
The irony here. All yandex products are exact copies of western, adjusted to local market.
Yeah, the same Yandex Maps that stopped showing state borders recently, as they are now "more focused on natural objects", in their words.
Edit: in fact, I just checked, yandex maps still shows state borders.
I didn't see it as I was looking at France. It's weird, because at large scale there are no borders, at medium scale there is a weird mix of national and local borders (Western EU countries have state-level borders, RU/BY/UA/US/CN have local borders, ...).
And to take your example, I have to zoom quite close for BG/TR to switch from state-wide to local borders.
I don't think you've lived in Russia if you need to ask that question. Breaking the law and getting away with it is a way of life in Russia, that goes for all institutions and social strata
By being on the internet. Russia has always been good at literally hitting you with a physical club if you're crazy enough to take a sign to the streets, but the Russian state doesn't understand the internet, or really anything that's sort of underground or intangible.
There's a reason the country is probably the world's largest place for all things piracy related, scihub and so on. It's not just laxer IP laws, it's also that tech in particular has always skirted all kinds of regulation freely, it's why the country has a relatively healthy tech industry despite at times suffocating regulation. The prevalence of cybercrime in the country is another example of it. Being censorious doesn't make you competent.
Even Telegram which was at some point supposedly blocked was still used by everyone, including funnily enough the foreign ministry itself. These things never really work in Russia.(https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-telegram-ban-idUSK...)
Laughed out loud!
Anyway I hope somebody creates a playground with this so I can make a computer write a fan fiction about Kirby and Solid Snake trying to raise a human baby on a yacht in the Caspian Sea or whatever other thing people will actually use this for.
THESE are the important things to talk about when it comes to this topic.
- Generate vocabulary - e.g. for biking: handlebars, pedals, shifters, etc
- Generate translation exercises for given topic a learner wants to learn about - e.g. I raised the seat on my bike
- Generate questions for the user - e.g. What are the different types of biking?
- Provide more fluent ways to say things - I went on my bike to the store -> I rode my bike to the store
- Provide explanations of the difference in meaning between two words
And we have fine tuned smaller models to do other thing like grammar correction, exercise grading, and embedded search.
These models are going to completely change the field of education in my opinion.
1) https://squidgies.app - be kind it's still a bit alpha
I can't say I'm a big fan but my teams is great and I don't have time to look for a job right now.
- useless ai generated intro text
- ten products that actually are the best reviewed per category by users
- brief ai blurb on product
- 3 actual user reviews of the product
So even with the ai text there's still some benefit to the page.
Who would have thought that one man's joke would become a reality?
"a 176 billion parameter transformer model that will be trained on roughly 300 billion words in 46 languages"
So anything smaller than that will become worthless. May be a factor, companies have a last chance to make a PR splash before it happens.
Read more about it: https://bigscience.huggingface.co/blog/model-training-launch...
But maybe your sentence was more about "after BigScience model, open-sourcing anything smaller than that will be useless" which isn't necessarily true either, because there is still room to improve parameter efficiency, i.e. smaller models with comparabale performances
I personally squinted hard when they said removing dropout improves training speed (which is in iterations per second), but said nothing about how it affects the performance (rate of mistakes in inference) of the trained model.
I don't know if that's the right way to think about the open sourcing of large language models. I just think we really can't read too much into such releases regarding their motivation.
I know from practice that it takes a really really long time to train even a small nn (thousands of params) , so you'll need a lot more hardware to train one with billions... But, it's expensive to buy the hardware, not necessarily to use it. If you, for some reason, have a few hundred GPU lying around, it might be "cheap" to do the necessary training.
Now, that's not your point - cost != price. But, still...
Not to nitpick, but that is like saying that if you have a Lamborghini lying around, a Sunday trip in one is not so expensive.
- They were into Ethereum mining and quit.
- They've already built a cluster with them (e.g. in an academic setting).
- They live in a datacenter.
- They are a total psychopath.
But even assuming one magically has all those GPUs available and ready to train, I don't want to calculate the power cost of it anyway. Unless one has access to free or extremely cheap electricity it would still be very expensive.
Maybe the dead internet theory will really come true; at least, in some sense of it. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2021/08/dead-...
>Gua, treated as a human child, behaved like a human child except when the structure of her body and brain prevented her. This being shown, the experiment was discontinued
There have been a lot of speculation as to other reasons of ending the experiment so prematurely. Maybe exhaustion. One thing which seemed to dawn on the parents - if one reads carefully - is that a human baby is far superior at imitating than the chimpanzee baby, frighteningly so, that they decided to abort the experiment early on in order to prevent any irreversible damage in the development to their human child which at that point had become far more similar to the chimpanzee than the chimpanzee to the human.
So, I would rephrase "the internet is dead" into "the internet becomes increasingly undead" because humans condition themselves in a far more accelerated way to behave like bots than bots are potentially able to do.
From the wrong side this could be seen as progress when in fact it's opposite progress. It sure feels like that way for a lot of of people and is a crucial reciprocal element often overlooked/underplayed (mostly in a benign effort to reduce unnecessary complexities) when analyzing human behaviour in interactions with the environment.
In other words, people are already behaving like bots; and we're building more and more software to encourage such behavior.
Now primarily employed in a marketing capacity.
Over my career I've worked with:
- Fund managers
- Academics (hard and soft sciences)
All of them believed that they're specific training and temperament made them immune from simple persuasion techniques and that they were purely rational actors.
None of them struck me as any more rational/more independent thinkers than anyone else off the street
Even when someone rates oneself down like when saying of themself that they're dumb, ugly or whatever, they generally mean it in a lesser fashion than for any other peer they'd attribute as such.
these guys are similar, except it's common belief.
The problem is that these problems are less profitable. And that the companies with enough compute to train these types of models are concerned about getting more eyeballs, not making the world a better place.
Sure, using AI to treat people without a human in the loop would clearly do harm. But using AI as an assistant, to help a doctor make the right diagnosis, seems like it'd do the opposite. It'd help doctors serve a larger patient population, make less mistakes, and probably equate to less harm in the long run.
Anyway, I think we can all agree that using AI for anything other than ad targeting is a net win.
Actors attempt to imitate humans. “Good acting” is convincing; the audience believes the actor is giving a reasonable response to the portrayed situation.
But the audience is also trying to imitate the actors to some degree. Like you point out, humans imitate. For some subset of the population, I’d imagine the majority of social situations they are exposed to, and the responses to situations they observe, are portrayed by actors.
At what point are actors defining the social responses that they then try to imitate? In other words, at what point does acting beget acting and how much of our daily social interactions actually are driven by actors? And is this world of actors creating artificial social responses substantially different than bots doing the same?
Famously the bald eagle sounds nothing like it does in tv and the movies and explosions are rarely massive fireballs. For human interaction it’s much harder to pin down cause and effect but if it happens in other cases it would be very surprising to not happen there.
I can't put a dumb person under.
I need someone with an active imagination who wants to work with me (for best results)
> ...humans condition themselves in a far more accelerated way to behave like bots than bots are potentially able to do.
Than bots can condition themselves to behave like humans, I presume. They can already behave exactly like bots. :-)
"monkey see, monkey do"
You can already see this with Chinchilla:
We're a long, long way from this. Stringing words/images together into a coherent sequence is arguably the easy bit of creating novels/films, and computers still lag a long way behind humans in this regard.
Structuring a narrative is a harder, subtler step. Our most advanced ML solutions are improving rapidly, but often struggle with coherence over a single paragraph; they're not going to be doing satisfying foreshadowing and emotional beats for a while.
I'm pretty sure the Marvel franchise is shat out by an algorithm.
We've come ludicrously far since then. That progress doesn't guarantee that innovation in the space will continue at its current pace, but it sure does feel like it's possible.
A big reason all the major studios are moving to big franchises is that the real money is in licensing the merch. The movies and TV shows are really just there to sell more merch. Maybe this will work when we all have high quality 3d printers at our desks and we can just print the merch they sell us.
The other big barrier is social. A lot of what people watch, they watch because it was recommended to them by friends or colleagues, and they want to talk about what other people are talking about. I'm sure that there will be many people who will get really into watching custom movies and discussing those movies with chatbots, but I bet most people will still want to socialize and discuss the movies they watch with other humans. FOMO is an underestimated driver of media consumption.
We’re probably 18 months away from this. We’re probably less than 5 years away from being able to do this on local hardware. AI/ML is advancing faster than most people realise.
You can say that about many movies/series made entirely by humans today. :)
Google's got you!
"Black mirror" was good but it's not nearly enough.
I do not look forward to the day when that story becomes an optimistic view of the future.
Isn’t that already the case? Sure, it costs $60K, but that is accessible to a surprisingly large minority, considering the potency of this software.
Moore's law didn't stop, just Dennard scaling. Expect graphics and AI to continue to improve radically in performance/price, while more ordinary workloads see only modest improvements.
Not sure about most of the people in here, but I would get really nervous at the thought of running something that eats up 3x300 watts per hour, for 24/7, just as part of a personal/hobby project. The incoming power bills would be too high, you have to be in the wage-percentile for which dropping 60k on a machine just to carry out some hobby project is ok, i.e. you’d have to be “high-ish” middle-class at least.
The recent increases in consumer power prices are a heavy blow for most of the middle-class around Europe (not sure about how things are in the States), so a project like this one is just a no-go for most of middle-class European programmers/computer people.
Things are getting more expensive here but nothing like the situation in Europe (essentially none of our energy was imported from Russia, historically ~10% of oil imports but that was mostly to refine and re-export, we have all the natural gas locally that we need) The US crossed the line into being a net hyrdocarbon energy exporter a while ago (unsure what the case is recently but it is at worst about at parity)
If by "A bit" you mean about 30-40k
> If by "A bit" you mean about 30-40k
30k more expensive: Than your very-low-end-"average" car.
40k more expensive: Than your average used car.
AFAICS. All in what one sees as an "average" car, I suppose.
Inference latency is a lot higher in relative terms, but even for things like image processing running a CNN on a CPU isn't particularly bad if you're experimenting, or even for low load production work.
But for really transient loads you're better off just renting seconds-minutes on a VM.
> The model [...] is supposed to run on multiple GPUs with tensor parallelism.
> It was tested on 4 (A100 80g) and 8 (V100 32g) GPUs, [but should work] with ≈200GB of GPU memory.
I don't know what the price of a V100 is, but given $10k a piece for A100s we would be closer to the $60k estimate.
Also, if you want to have a machine with eight of these cards, it will need to be a pretty high-spec rack-mounted or large tower. To feed these GPUs, you will want to have a decent amount of PCIe-4 lanes, meaning EPYC are the logical choice. So that's $20k for an AMD EPYC server with at least 1.6kw PSUs etc etc.
It also sounds like they haven't optimized their model, or done any split on it, but if they did, I suspect they could load it up and have it infer slower on fewer GPUs, by using main memory.
Note that A100 like other datacenter GPUs are passively cooled. You need a strong airflow and duct in any case that would house them.
Can you spec it out roughly?
Whatever we think will happen will not happen. A less-inspired known-good state will take its place, creating another status quo. Which will funnel us into dystopian futures. I'm just going off my own observations and life experience of the last 20 years, and the way that people in leadership positions keep letting the rest of us down after they make it.
For me, the issue is that use cases and power usage are secondary to the fundamental science of computation. So it's fine to have matrix-processing stuff like OpenGL and TensorFlow, but those should be built on general-purpose hardware or else we end up with the cookie cutter solutions we have today. Want to run a giant artificial life simulation with genetic algorithms? Sorry, you can't do that on a GPU. And it turns out that most of the next-gen stuff I'm interested in just can't be done on a GPU.
There was a lot of progress on transputers and clusters (the old Beowulf cluster jokes) in the 80s and 90s. But researchers came up against memory latency issues (Amdahl's law) and began to abandon those approaches after video cards like the 3dfx Voodoo arrived around 1997.
But there are countless other ways to implement concurrency and parallelism. If you think of all the techniques as a galaxy, then GPUs are way out at the very end of one spiral arm. We've been out on that arm for 25 years. And while video games have gotten faster (at enormous personal effort by millions of people), we've missed out on the low hanging fruit that's possible on the other arms.
For example, code can be auto-parallelized without intrinsics. It can be statically analyzed to detect contexts which don't affect others, and the instructions in those local contexts could be internally spread over many cores. Like what happens in shaders.
But IMHO the greatest travesty of the modern era is that those innovations happened (poorly) in GPUs instead of CPUs. We should be able to go to the system menu and get info on our computer and see something like 1024+ cores running at 3 GHz. We should be able to use languages like Clojure and Erlang and Go and MATLAB and even C++ that auto-parallelize to that many cores. So embarrassingly parallel stuff like affine rasterization and blitters would run in a few cycles with ordinary for-loops instead of needing loops that are unrolled by hand or whatever other tedium that distracts developers from getting real work done. Like, why do we need a completely different paradigm for shaders outside of our usual C/C++/C# workflow, where we can't access system APIs or even the memory in our main code directly? That's nonsense.
And I don't say that lightly. My words are imperfect, but I do have a computer engineering degree. I know what I'm talking about, down to a very low level. Wherever I look, I just see so much unnecessary effort where humans tailor themselves to match the whims of the hardware, which is an anti-pattern at least as bad as repeating yourself. Unfortunately, the more I talk about this, the more I come off as some kind of crackpot as the world keeps rushing headlong out on the GPU spiral arm without knowing there's no there there at the end of it.
My point is that for all the progress in AI and rendering and simulation, we could have had that 20 years ago for a tiny fraction of the effort with more inspired architecture choices. The complexity and gatekeeping we see today are artifacts of those unfortunate decisions.
I dream of a day when we can devote a paltry few billion transistors on a small $100 CPU to 1000+ cores. Instead we have stuff like the Cerebras CS-2 with a trillion transistors for many thousands of dollars, which is cool and everything, but is ultimately gatekeeping that will keep today's Anakin from building C-3PO.
Before any of the things you describe happen, most states will mandate the equivalent of a carry permit to be able to freely use compute for undeclared and/or unapproved purposes.
Combine that with the fact that PyTorch recently added support for Apple silicon GPUs.
apart from the fact that you can't use any of the many nvidia-specific things; if you're dependent on cuda, nvcuvid, AMP or other things that's a hard no.
I think it's far more likely that in 10 years we'll all become more used to rolling blackouts, and fondly remember we all used to be able to afford to eat out, and laugh over a glass of cheap gin about how wild things were back in the old days before things got really bad.
10 years ago was a much more exciting and hopeful time than today. I remember watching Hinton show off what deep learning was just starting to do. It was frankly more interesting that high parameter language models. Startups were all working on some cool problems rather than just trying to screw over customers.
That's just technology. Economically, socially and ecologically things looks far brighter in 2012 than they do now, and in 2032 I suspect we'll feel the same about today, but far more dramatically.
We've already pass the peak of "things are getting better all the time!" but people are just in denial about this.
It also seems to me that most people would not be ready to give up more than 10% of their luxuries / way of living up-front in order to protect those structures and would continue to watch funny TikTok videos and post IG photos until the very moment their internet access goes out and doesn't come back.
(applies to computing and other technologies like power production and agriculture)
Do you mean train or run? My assumption was all these models could be run on most computers, probably with a simple docker container, as long as there is sufficient RAM to hold the network, which should be most laptops > 16gb ram.
Speaking of which, anyone have recommendations on pre-trained docker containers with weights included?
And whether it really matters. That's the bigger question.
I think, for most of us, it does matter. But we're not sure why and
what a loss of human reality would really mean.
For a few who wholeheartedly embrace it there's some resonance with
the psychedelic/60s creed that sees this as some kind of "liberation".
You'll need your own wiring to run your PC soon :-)
I am not a physicist or biologist or anything like that so my intuition is probably completely wrong but it seems to me that for more basic inference operations (lets say add two numbers) power consumption from a processor and a brain is not that different. It’s like seeing how expensive it is for computers to infer for any NLP model, humans should be continuously eating carbs just to talk.
[It's been quite a while since I studied this stuff, so I can't recall whether 60 mV/decade is a constant for silicon specifically or all semiconductors.]
Sure it is - it is too hard to figure it out based on 2 numbers number, but lets multiply that by a billion - how much energy does it take a computer to add two billion numbers? Far less than the energy it would take a human brain to add them.
175 GB aggregate on both RAM and nvme is in the realm of home deep learning workstation.
As long as you aren’t too fussy about inference speed of course.
>but is able to work with different configurations with ≈200GB of GPU memory in total which divide weight dimensions correctly (e.g. 16, 64, 128).
In theory you could probably assign a powerful enough iGPU a few hundred gigabytes of memory already, but just like Apple Silicon the integrated GPU isn't exactly very powerful. The difference between the M1 iGPU and the AMD 5700G is less than 10% and a loaded out system should theoretically be tweakable to dedicate hundreds of gigabytes of VRAM to it.
It's just a waste of space. An RTX3090 is 6 to 7 times faster than even the M1, and the promised performance increase of about 35% for the M2 will means nothing when the 4090 will be released this year.
I think there are better solutions for this. Leveraging the high throughput of PCIe 5 and resizable BAR support might be used to quickly swap out banks of GPU memory, for example, at a performance decrease.
One big problem with this is that GPU manufacturers have incentive to not implement ways for consumers GPUs to compete with their datacenter products. If a 3080 with some memory tricks can approach an A800 well enough, Nvidia might let a lot of profit slip through their hands and they can't have that.
Maybe Apple's tensor chip will be able to provide a performance boost here, but it's stuck on working with macOS and the implementations all seem proprietary so I don't think cross platform researchers will really care about using it. You're restricted by Apple's memory limitations anyway, it's not like you can upgrade their hardware.
The Mac Studio maxes out at 128GB currently for around $5K, so 256GB isn't that far out and might work with the ~200GB Yandex says is required.
Would you have to scan through all 200GB of data once per character generated? That doesn't actually sound too painful - 1 minute per character seems kinda okay.
And I guess you can easily do lots of data parallelism, so you can get 1 minute per character on lots of inputs and outputs at the same time.
I wonder how bad it comes out with something like Optane?
You can also infer a few tokens at once, so it will be more than 1 char a minute. Probably more like sentence a minute.
It’s difficult to estimate how slow it would be, but I’m guessing unusably slow.
During inference you only need to keep layer outputs until the next layer's outputs are computed.
If we talk about memory bandwidth, it is space requirements that are important, not so much time complexity.
$ dd if=/dev/zero of=/swapfile bs=1G count=250 status=progress
$ chmod 600 /swapfile
$ mkswap -U clear /swapfile
$ swapon /swapfile
$ ( umask 077; dd if=/dev/zero of=/swapfile bs=1G count=250 status=progress )
$ mkswap /swapfile
$ swapon /swapfile
It's simply because it's an easy way to create a file of a certain size that most Linux users would be familiar with.
The quicker way (and possibly more "proper" way) is to use fallocate, but who has even heard of that vs dd ?
You're also likely to get less write amplification if your swap file is continuous.
Of course with all the layers of indirection it's a numbers game, you don't know if your file system allocates adjacent inodes, and you don't know how your SSD will remap the blocks. But all else being equal, trying to make the file as sequential as possible seems preferable.
But this does make me wonder if there's any way to allow a graphics card to use regular RAM in a fast way? AFAIK built-in GPU's inside CPU's can but those GPU's are not powerful enough
Integrated GPUs that use a portion of system memory are an exception to this and do not require memcpys when using unified memory. However, I'm not aware of any powerful iGPUs from Nvidia these days.
There does seem to be a zero copy concept as well and I've certainly used direct memory access over pcie before on other proprietary devices.
An alternative is the p3.16xlarge for 8 V100s with 256GB of GPU RAM but you might as well get the A100s since it's only $0.50/hr cheaper
I assume some of the services that offer GPT-J APIs will pick this up, but it doesn't look cheap or easy to get this running.
You can't even search for images "before:date" in Google anymore.
End of the day I’ll use what actually gets the job done.
Same goes for OpenAI and Google AI. If you don’t actually ever release and let others use your stuff and end paralyzed in fear at what your models may do then someone else is gonna release the same tech, and at this rate it seems like that’ll be Chinese or Russian companies who don’t share your sensibilities at all, and their models will be the ones that end up productized.
- NVIDIA sells GPUs and interconnect needed for training large models. Releasing a pretrained LM would hurt sales, while only publishing a teaser paper boosts them.
- Google, Microsoft, and Amazon offer ML-as-a-service and TPU/GPU hardware as a part of their cloud computing platforms. Russian and Chinese companies also have their clouds, but they have low global market share and aren't cost-efficient, so nobody would use them to train large LMs anyway.
- OpenAI are selling their models as an API with a huge markup over inference costs; they are also largely sponsored by the aforementioned companies, further aligning their interests with them.
Companies that release large models are simply those who have nothing to lose by doing so. Unfortunately, you need a lot of idle hardware to train them, and companies that have it tend to also launch a public cloud with it, so there is a perpetual conflict of interests here.
Their "moral" reasoning behind not publishing models is simply laughtable because they do sell API access to them to anyone who can pay. And "bad guys" generally have money.
They used to be a non-profit with a mission, now they are a for-profit with the only mission of money.
I would be totally on their side if their reasoning was that they dont publish models to compete with FAANG more efficiently and get more income for their research, but this moral reasoning just sounds completely fake because bad actors do have funding to train their own models.
Examples of "real cases of misuse encountered in the wild" include "spam promotions for dubious medical products and roleplaying of racist fantasies".
Yes, some bad actors can train their own models, but OpenAI can't do much about that either way. It is doubtful whether spam promoters of dubious medical products can, at least for a while.
Personally, I think using AI to manufacture advertisements on demand is misuse... but will Google agree with me?
Here's an alternative: progressively release better and better models (like 3B params, 10B, 50B, 100B) and let people figure out the best way to fight against bad actors using them.
This is the sort of argument that proves guns would be less dangerous if everyone had access to them.
Or sometimes both, because it's only part of the truth. Maybe the complete version should be: "An armed society is a 'polite' society, but with very frequent killings and not-infrequent massacres." I think I prefer living in a less "polite" society.
why is morality into this? is this the same discussion of car manufacturers not selling cars to certain people because they are worried about misuse?
" IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE
don't commercial licenses have same/similar wording so what liability are you talking about?
But yes, the name is not what it should be, given their current ideas.
What kind of lawyers/regulation do you have in mind? If anything, I'd find the opposite: lawyers and copyright holders should be grateful for such a tool that - when it was still working - allowed you to trace websites using your images illegally.
Now they all use Yandex for this purpose, with relatively good results.
Tineye is definitely better than Google with crops, etc. Google reverse image search seems to have more data, but it seems much less able to recognize even basic modifications to the input.
Who's suing them and on what grounds? If they made changes, it's probably for PR reasons, not legal ones.
Also not all of these seem "fixed" e.g.:
Article from 2016, but results look very similar today: https://www.google.com/search?q=unprofessional+hair&source=l...
If they let everyone use the latest models, critics could uncover ugly biases in 10 minutes. Then Google would have to do damage control. These models are very suggestible. You can induce them to make fools of themselves.
Naval Ravikant put it best here: https://twitter.com/naval/status/1002106977273565184
Can anyone recommend any open source machine learning project that would be a good starting point? I want one that does something interesting (whether using text, images, whatever), but simple/efficient enough to run on a gaming PC and see some kind of results in hours, not months. I'm not sure what I want to do with ML yet, I just know I'm interested, and getting something up and running is likely to enthuse me to start playing and researching further.
My spec is: GeForce RTX 2080 Ti (11GB), a 24-core AMD Ryzen Threadripper, and 128GB RAM. I'd be willing to spend on a new graphics card if it would make all the difference. I am a competent coder and familiar with Python but my experience with ML is limited to fawning over things on HN. Any recommendations gratefully received!
1. CS231n Machine Vision https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkt2uSq6rBVctENoVBg1T...
2. CS234 Reinforcement Learning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgzM3zpZ55o&list=PLoROMvodv4...
3. CS330 Meta Learning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rZtSwNOTQo&list=PLoROMvodv4...
Those will get you on track with general concepts about reasoning, AI engineering and concepts of learning itself
Language models for me a bit of headache because there're in different domain on intersection with linguistics and humanities but here's a good course
Those are all free and high-quality but require a lot of brain power
The day will come when we will be able to.
Won’t incremental advancement cover this eventually? (i.e. no major breakthrough required, just patience).
so we looking at crazy prices just for inference. RIP to the first guy's cloud billing account who makes this public
Suddenly that 3090 i wanted to get, does not seem so expensive....
EDIT: It seems fine if you download with a browser useragent not CURL... I guess I just got hit by some anti-bot thing they have accidentally have turned on.
Having skimmed the GitHub readme and medium article, this announcement seems to be very focused on the number of parameters and engineering challenges scaling the model, but it does not contain any details about the model, training (learning rate schedules, etc.), or data composition.
It is great that more models are getting released publicly, but I would not get excited about it before some evaluations have been published. Having a lot of parameters should not be a goal in and of itself. For all we know this model is not well trained and worse than Eleuther AI's 20B parameter model, while also being inconveniently large.
And yet your own project headline is "Pathways Language Model (PaLM): Scaling to 540 Billion Parameters for Breakthrough Performance".
2. 540 billion parameters is notable for its size, which is likely why they lead with that particular headline.
* Good. This is great researchers helping community by sharing great work. (which is what I'd like to assume before I have any proof of the contrary)
* Bad. This very expensive training has been approved by Ya leadership (which is under Western personal sanctions) because they've secretly built in RU's propaganda talking points into the model. Such as "war in Ukraine is not a war but special operation" etc.
But we should have better tools to test for biases/toxicity. Perspective API is great tool for toxicity detection. But I'm not aware of any "propoganda" detection tool.
Looks to be approximately 50/50 from my random scrolling through the list.
Therefore, the size of the vocab gives a good guide to the size of the data, since if there was 10x more english language data then the optimal distribution would be to dedicate more token space to english than russian.
isnt that so ?
2. Yandex News service ignores the genocide currently happening in Ukraine.
3. Yandex Search engine hides the pictures of Bucha and Irpin massacre as well as Kharkiv and Mariupol destruction.
Yandex using whitewashing tactics via open source.
They do business in other countries and for that it is best for the business to appear as neutral as possible. We don't know how much they fiddle with the search results and ranking but this still looks quite neutral to me: https://yandex.com/search/?text=russo+ukrainian+war
Julian Assange detailed this in a newsweek article before his name and body were smeared into the ground:
Oh, but they say he's not trustworthy, or that it's a conspiracy theory that he was intentionally smeared. Well, the CIA and their contractors have been doing it for over a decade, even before he was unfairly accused of helping trump:
Google is an arm of the state department, no doubt.
"Putin's agents reportedly threatened a top Google executive in Moscow with a 24-hour ultimatum – Take down Russia protest vote app or go to prison" -- https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-agents-threatened-goo...
Not yet at least, the political climate may deteriorate to that point, especially when it's about elections, given recent revelations.
Still, at least right now it looks to me - and I have visited Russia and Ukraine several times in the past and still have indirect connections (to people heavily involved in business there) - that there still is considerable more freedom from the government and its wishes for people and companies in the West.
If you publicly criticize a US politician you may get some hate messages, but at least they are from private citizens and you don't have FBI agents knocking on your door threatening you with prison. In Germany some rogue police were found to send threatening messages, but as soon as it was discovered the government acted against it. Also in Germany there even were public rallies from pro-Russian folks, now try that in Moscow with pro-Ukraine banners... Russia even bans the colors yellow and blue, even when they have nothing whatsoever to do with Ukraine and are just decorative: "Russians Strip Yellow and Blue From the Nation’s Streets Over Ukraine War" -- https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/27/in-photos-russians...
Correct, it's DHS.
The same DHS who bans immigrants that are or have been members of a communist party .
lmao mkay. Not identical, but very similar. It's not even 'Alex Jones'-tier to say this. I think you forget you are if you are under US or (even NATO). YOU WILL hear propaganda from your side, as the Russians do. It's NORMAL. We live under control of a hegemon with self-interests.
May I have to remind you of these? And tell me the difference between these and Russian spookery:
>Assange was being hunted down by the US worldwide (https://diem25.org/exactly-10-years-ago-wikileaks-released-a...)
I could go on, but the point was made already.
Edit: So yes, it's actually 'both sides'
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
Sure, my rhetotic got kinda out of line. I get excited debating.
>and using HN for ideological battle
I reject the characterization, it's almost implying I have an end with these posts besides putting a point of view that's at least an alternative to status quo that can make people realize they don't have any skin in the game, and that the US State Dept. has. I also don't. I don't really care about the outcome of the war.
>If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
I'll do that then. Thanks for the heads up.
Which IMO is a comment that only a shitty person would make.
I have no skin in the game. War, no war, it doesn't matter to me the outcome of this war to be honest.
EDIT: But if you are all moral highground, answer me this:
Why did the US goad Ukraine into taking a hostile stance against a neighbouring (and somewhat rival) great power? Whas this to the interest of Ukranians? Or to the geopolitical interests of US? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93eyhO8VTdg
"Why did you, W, goad X into expressing their sovereignty against Y? Didn't you know that Y would react with violence? That makes W the bad guy"
No, Y is always on the wrong side; you can't use the threat of violence and then claim via realpolitik that the other side was in the wrong. "Moral high ground" means you act out of principle, not political convenience. In this case, Ukraine didn't want to be in the Russian sphere, so we supported them.
And now yeah, the US is paying a lot of money and inconvenience to support Ukraine. Gas will be more expensive, we're spending tens of billions on weapons. But that's because it's the right thing to do; not every decision is a realpolitik game about maximizing revenue from vassal states (which I hope Russia will learn someday).
Ukraine has self interests. Everyone has. But not everyone can actualize those, due to reality. The reality is that Ukraine neighbours a powerful hegemon.
Since international relations are anarchistic (due to not being a supra-entity that has authority over states [authority!=international courts bullsh*]), Ukraine hasn't any right (to its sovereign, that does not exist) to be sovereign. It has to go out and look for itself.
Ukraine thought that had the US/NATO back, that made it act in a more reckless way (kind of when you rely on your big brother type stuff). It escalated 'till it decided it wanted to join NATO. It was goaded.
>you can't use the threat of violence and then claim via realpolitik that the other side was in the wrong.
who says? That's your problem. You lack the 'anarchistic' framework of geopolitics.
Now, realpolitik-wise, Ukraine's self-interests (of being more independent of Russia thru NATO) did clash with Russia's self-interests of being safe (and probably made Russia have a expansionary Casus Belli).
I feel that the US triggered and amplified the war, thru regime change in Ukraine (yep, maidan was a coup), recognizing aspirations of UA to NATO, making Zeleskyy too comfy to be more harsh in negotiations (where he had no leverage, cuz Ukraine's power small vs Rus.), ultimately resulted in unnecessary deaths, just for the purpose of sphere of influence expansion.
>so we supported them.
Even if it's reckless and could trigger something like this?
Also, I will play the 'reversed roles card' again. This time with a REAL example.
Cuba. Was. The. Same. Thing.
That's why this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine.
US has the same pattern as Russia. It's actually incredible how close these are.
They clash with Russia's perceived self-interests of being safe, yes. The problem is, Russia defines "being safe" the same way it always has, under the General Secretaries of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and all the (other) Tsars before, going right back to when the Grand Duchy of Muscovy emerged from vassalage to the Mongols: by distance of their borders from Moscow. And the distance they want is at least up to Warsaw, Vienna and Sofia, but preferably Berlin or Paris (or, better yet, Lisbon).
That kind of clashes with the current world order, where there are quite a lot of currently sovereign nations in the way, which would have to be subordinated to Moscow – or basically just wiped off the map – to give Russia what its leadership wants.
What you're advocating is in effect that this is how it should be, because Russia is "a great power". (Newsflash: So were Germany and Japan in 1939. And, to compare with Russia's current equal in GDP, Italy.)
A more rational solution would be that Russia updates its concept of "being safe" to at least the 20th century. (Or, hey, one that worked for at least some countries even in the 19th: Don't be an asshole to anyone, then nobody will want to attack you.)
> yep, maidan was a coup
I've found that to be rhe most infallible heuristic on social media for – oh-so-coincidenctally – the last third of a year: Calls Maidan a "coup" → is a Putler-propagandist troll.
> UA ... NATO ... Zeleskyy [yadda yadda] ultimately resulted in unnecessary deaths
Oh, that's funny. And here I thought it was Putler's unilateral decision to start a war of aggression causing all those deaths.
You gravely misspelled "Why did the US support the sovereign nation-state Ukraine in asserting its independence against a neighbouring rogue state whose dictatorial regime has delusions of still being a 'great power'?"
But I don't know, maybe that was what you meant to write and some evil employees at one of Putin's troll factories inserted their master's propaganda into your otherwise so well-thought-out piece.
What about Canadian truckers? Didn't Trudeau call them terrorists, took their trucks, donations, bank accounts and driver licenses... There is no right to protest anywhere, don't kid yourself.
They gave protest a bad name.
Your conclusion that "There is no right to protest anywhere" is simply ridiculous.
BLM rioters did this, and more. Violence + Property damage + Corporate Backing + gov backing.
They didn't had their donation money seized,and almost no resistance to establish order.
It seems plausible; we don't know what gets done under the FISA court but it would presumably involve companies like Google. Some suited agent of the US government turning up at Google HQ and threatening jail time under some FISA warrant if some pro-Trump something doesn't disappear off Google.
That'd be a scandal but not the worst abuse of the secret court system. It hasn't exactly covered itself with glory since inception. They already spy on basically everyone and that is a lot worse than some light censorship.
(jails its opposition)
>fraudulent elections: funny how the concerns that 'half' of the US had with elections were dismissed. Especially when conditions were different, by using a method usually agreed (until now, cuz narrative) prone to tampering. So much for free and fair elections.
So _Zero_ huh?
Sure, there's probably a non-zero amount of germs in the pasteurised homogenised and sterilly-packaged milk I buy at the supermarket. So is drinking that equivalent to sucking the pus out of a punctured boil on the arse of a diseased cow?
No. There's zero comparison. None. Zero.
Learn to read, man. If nothing else, it'll make you a better propaganda troll for your Kremlin master.
obeying to Kremlin is just an aspect of running business in Russia
the only option would be not to operate in Russia at all. Yandex can't do this, because their audience is primarily in Russia
If you're profiteering from our suffering and choose Kremlin's needs over ours, don't be suprised then when we tell you to shove your AI models and your search.
Now they scramble to present a whitewashed image to Western public. They will probably put themselves forward as great contributors to open source.
From context, pretty obviously "we Ukrainians". Didn't do too well in elementary reading, did you?
> I am not in this together. So change it to "I". I don't care about you lot... lmao
Thank you for so effectively demonstrating what a despicable excuse for a human being you are. I'll do my best to remember this when next I come across anything from you.
Of course Yandex likes to pose as the victim of censorship, but the truth is that they are the censors themselves. They've been steamrolled by a runaway process they helped to create.
they continue to use it however, because it gives them the expected results most of the time
I usually try ddg first, if it's tech I use Bing, if it's local I use Google.
By conflating those two clearly means you don't understand what's going on Russia and its Putin-controlled satellites like Belarus.
And you've got Abby Martin and Chris Hedges who've had much of their content removed by YouTube. Chris Hedges is even a Pulitzer prize winner.
On the other side, the FSB has deported 1.3 million innocent Ukrainian civilians to concentration camps. (number is from official Russian sources)
> number is from official Russian sources)
Surly you can give a kind stranger a link to these official sources?
"Despite all the difficulties created by the Kiev authorities, over the past day, 29,733 people, including 3,502 children, were evacuated from dangerous areas of Ukraine and the Republics of Donbass to the territory of the Russian Federation without the participation of the Ukrainian side. And in total, since the beginning of the special military operation, there are 1,936,911 people, of which 307,423 are children," Mikhail Mizintsev, head of the National Defense Control Center of the Russian Federation, said at a briefing on Saturday.
>Reuters could not independently verify the figure given by Denisova or her allegations, for which she did not provide supporting evidence.
This is the first.
Interfax article doesn't loads for me right now, but I doubt they use the term "concentration camp" (like the previous poster said they do) too.
And given how I just today read how people in Kherson are happilly take Russian passports - I have a big doubt these accusations have a valid basis.
You're just a stranger. You'd have to prove you're kind.
By conflating those two clearly means you don't understand that everyone isn't in the same situation as yourself.
If Google is doing anything that is required of them legally as a US corp, I don't have a problem with that.
edit: Does it really matter if they setup an FTP server instead of direct access, when we know a request can literally ask for "all" data (see Verizon).
> When required to comply with these requests, we deliver that information to the US government — generally through secure FTP transfers and in person," Google spokesman Chris Gaither told Wired, among other news outlets. 
These systems don't give access to "all" data. Telephone companies are different- AT&T had a long standing, off the books agreement with US intelligence agencies (see Idea Factory for a fact-based discussion of what AT&T did) to share large amounts of information illegally.
> Google and Facebook feed their data to NSA.
We know that at least some companies were ordered to handover all data, continuously .
edit: I think we have enough evidence that I would assume that it's valid for the other companies on the slides, and if it's not true you'll have to provide some proof of that.
edit 2: 
> It searches that database and lets them listen to the calls or read the emails of everything that the NSA has stored, or look at the browsing histories or Google search terms that you've entered, and it also alerts them to any further activity that people connected to that email address or that IP address do in the future."
> Greenwald explained that while there are "legal constraints" on surveillance that require approval by the FISA court, these programs still allow analysts to search through data with little court approval or supervision.
> "There are legal constraints for how you can spy on Americans," Greenwald said. "You can't target them without going to the FISA court. But these systems allow analysts to listen to whatever emails they want, whatever telephone calls, browsing histories, Microsoft Word documents."
> "And it's all done with no need to go to a court, with no need to even get supervisor approval on the part of the analyst," he added.
> Equally unusual is the way the NSA extracts what it wants, according to the document: “Collection directly from the servers of these U.S. Service Providers: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple.” 
...has become such a huge tinfoil-hat kook that it taints anything he's ever said and done. I have no way of knowing when his brain-rot started to affect his writings, so I can't really trust the shit that seemed so convincing back in 2003 any more.
- phone calls surveillance in Venezuella: no Google no FB mentioned
- plain words of some reporter without any evidence provided, no Google no FB mentioned
Also where do you see Venezuela?
> It's a lot more than I've seen than evidence for the claims of Yandex proactively sharing data with the Russian government.
The difference is that checks and balances are much stronger in US, and such activities can be successfully investigated and government sued.
As an example, your verizon case was successfully challenged: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klayman_v._Obama
In Russia, court system works in manual mode from Kremlin.
> Also where do you see Venezuela?
I misread, you are right.
Do you really expect the US government to literally publish their illegal surveillance operations on Wikipedia as proof?
Snowden's leaks and his statements should be enough to understand the big-tech surveillance apparatus aids the government under the table.
You say that after we were talking about the NSA literally spying on US citizens, and without any proof? C'mon, are you really going to badger me about not having having the exact "hard evidence", and not even read my sources or provide ANY evidence yourself.
edit: Yes, it got challenged AFTER needing to be leaked by a whistleblower that still can't return to his home.
Good chance is that whistleblowing would be protected in this specific case.
> Snowden was charged with theft, “unauthorized communication of national defense information” and “willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person,” according to the complaint. The last two charges were brought under the 1917 Espionage Act.
Government can charge him with whatever they want, it is up to court to decide if charges are valid.
When has Russia ever been anything but bad?
that is the point
Yandex is in fact share responsibility for Russian government actions. While it impossible to fight censorship they could certainly shut down their News service completely.
Yandex could also certainly move more of their company and staff out of country. It was their deliberate choice stay in Russia and getting advantages on local market by using their political weight.
In any case as unfortunate owner of Russian passport with friends and collegues in Ukraine I am more affected by Putins war than by anything US does.
So I want Yandex to be seen as part of Kremlin propoganda machine and threated accordingly. This company grew monopoly in many markets in Russia and they directly benefited from Putin regime. Since Ilya Segalovich died company started to be "out of politics" and this complete lack of any political activity lead country to these terrible events.
In US they pretend to "decide" to censor things "on their own" because 1st amendment prevents the government from officially demanding censorship.
Can you please edit name-calling / swipes like that out of your HN comments? It breaks the site guidelines and weakens your point.
Highly emotional tone changes how the data affects the reader. If he is right, I would surely better remember next time that Google is in the same ballpark due to the insult hitting hard. If he is wrong, I will know better to ignore such claims in the future without a direct quote or something else that consumes less time than reading an entire linked article.
A quote from the second one: "cumulative 45 percent decrease in traffic from Google searches"
When a company puts Jon Lennon's Merry Xmas (War is Over) behind age restriction banner, the question stops being "Is there censorship?" and becomes about the logic of such censorship.
>The third one was temporary until Google stopped operating in Russia altogether.
They've censored other things on behest of the Russian government for years. Again, I cannot fathom how people on a tech website like HN can be unaware of such things. This is common knowledge broadly covered on mainstream websites.
Even in the translation case (which I assume you mean by your "excuse" remark) the original source is still available as is. I am not even sure from the description what translation team it was talking about and what does it have to do with Google exactly. "translate company text for the Russian market" this passage sounds like it talks about translating Google's own interfaces, help pages, press releases, or support articles to Russian. E.g. no external voice is being censored.
Google, in contrast, has zero results implying the deaths were staged or committed by Ukrainians.
Also, nothing shady from Israel side in term of sanctions. They have a large Jewish community in both Russia and Ukraine and need to be on good term with both to have their gov helping in supporting (or evacuating) them. Not to mention Russia has heavy presence in Syria which borders Israel. A conflict with Russia without anything like a NATO back is out of the question.
Kind of explains the general vibe of relations between everyone in that area historically
> Use in antisemitic polemic
> conspiracy theorist, David Icke, who states that the Israelians falsely claim to be descendants of the Biblical Jews
I don't really care about conspiracy theorists. Mainly because they ignore 2000 years of accepted archeology.
This led me to look up similar information. Another article  looks into this a little more deeply.
I feel there is a resurgence of despising European dominance over the last 200 years and Israel is just another point here. Thus, we have material hypothesizing the illegitimacy of European Jews when the Jews of other
ethnicities may have better acceptance in the region. (But all of this is just a vague hypothesis.)
>> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
That somehow doesn't support the point your are trying to make at all...
They show Kremlin propoganda on their front page which makes Yandex part of Kremlin propoganda machine. They could have shut down news agregator, but they choose not to.
They are complying with russian censorship laws and it's gotten so bad that they are planning to sell the news service altogether to VK which is far worse than Yandex when it to how eager they are to enforce these laws and to work with cops.
So now you have one more reason to say Yandex is bad for the world.
<edit>: reading closely I see that the initial allegation did use the word "settlement", and indeed that would constitute ethically questionable behavior. However, a sibling comment refutes this.
*edit: you hadn’t posted your edit yet. I have no idea if the allegation is truthful.
*edit again: Why do downvoters think I’m wrong?
That said, you might be right about parent's intention, in which case I agree with your post. Israeli settlers are definitely considered to be doing it partially as a political move, though some are doing it for economic reasons.
Escaping western sanctions by moving to Israel + Being a Russian shill are usually mutually inclusive, not exclusive things.
Hijacking top comments when flamebait hasn't succeeded in setting an entire thread on fire yet is particularly abusive.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31853016.
That's just not true, try it yourself. It just does not display the latest images by default (though it's easily turned on in the filter settings), and that's why on the very day the news appeared on the Internet, people went crazy about that Yandex somehow "hides the truth"...
> Yandex News service ignores the genocide currently happening in Ukraine
That is actually required by the Russian regulations on news aggregator services. Yeah, those regulations are unfair and oppressive, but it's the local law to which Yandex must comply. And by the way, they're going to get rid of that toxic asset: https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/28/yandex-sells-news-zen-vk
(I suppose they can't just shut it down because the government threatens to nationalize Yandex in response)
> Yandex supports the Russian Terrorist regime
Can you please show any public statement from Yandex from which one could derive that?
I Was Just Following Orders (c)
Yandex could just shut down Yandex.News service completely years ago without repercussions. They choose not to.
That comes from where? The repercussions could have been very severe. The Russian government easily takes over and seizes control over "rogue companies". Russia is not a free country, my friend.
Basically even today after war has began and tens of thousands were killed on both sides some of people working there still hold the illusion that they could continue to live in their bubble and continue to innovate in Russia like nothing happen. So no, they are not some poor IT company opressed by the government. Every employee who wanted to immigrate was able to move abroad.
6-10 years ago Yandex can certainly shut down their news service without being seized. Back in 2008-2012 one of Yandex co-founders and ex-CTO Ilya Segalovich was often visitor of street protests almost until his death in 2013 and this did not caused company to be seized.
They can destroy equipment, safely delete all the code repositories etc. beforehand, thus rendering the company useless before the nationalization. But $$$ is more important.
> Can you please show any public statement from Yandex from which one could derive that?
Yandex pays tens/hundreds of millions in taxes and thus finances the war.
So what? You shut down the business with 20k employees, on the grounds that you do not agree with local regulations or because the government did bad? That is as far from reality as it gets.
> But $$$ is more important
Yeah, I think preserving the company is more important than that proposed suicide move (that wouldn't have worked anyway because the company is just too huge).
It's not just money, it's people, it's culture, it's all the great projects the company does.
What about people killed by the Russian army, sponsored by Yandex?
I guess those matter less than the company culture, right?
Let's then shut down the Europe, right? You can say — look, they're trying hard to get rid of Russian resources. But Yandex is also trying hard to become less dependent on Russian economy — they try to internationalize their business. And all that "canceling" of Yandex really doesn't help (it does the opposite in fact).
> So Europe is sponsoring the war way more than Yandex.
That's unfortunately true. The dependency is real, and it will take a long time to get rid of it.
> And all that "canceling" of Yandex really doesn't help (it does the opposite in fact).
Cancelling Yandex completely, as in forcing it to collapse, would help a lot. Yandex services (together with VK) are extremely important in the Russian society and economy, and their collapse would weaken Russia and its ability to wage (military/economic) war a lot. As such, this would be the best course of action (as mentioned before, burn the equipment, delete the code).
It's just a wishful thinking. It wont "collapse", it would just become controlled by government, and then it truly becomes the instrument of the evil, so that not only News, but every service Yandex provides will serve the government needs. They will recruit soldiers through Yandex services, they make Yandex develop AI-controlled tanks and whatnot. Every thing that Yandex doesn't do now (because they do not actually support the war) — they will make it to do.
> their collapse would weaken Russia and its ability to wage (military/economic) war a lot
Of course not, because the Russian army and the military industrial complex is in no way dependent on the search engine and the food delivery service Yandex provides. You can destroy those, sure. People lifes get slightly worse, and then competitors catch up (there is a lot of competition to Yandex in Russia and they are not going to fade away).
That's why part of my suggestion is to burn the equipment/infrastructure and delete the code.
> They will recruit soldiers through Yandex services, they make Yandex develop AI-controlled tanks and whatnot
And the only thing stopping them now from doing that is that Yandex is not nationalized. Yeah, sure.
> Of course not, because the Russian army and the military industrial complex is in no way dependent on the search engine and the food delivery service Yandex provides.
Yandex provides many services, it's much like google - maps, translation, drive, mail etc. etc. Bringing it down would cripple many private and economic activities. Russia can't sustain waging wars if they don't have an economy and disgruntled population.
With the exception of VK, there isn't really any step-in competition to Yandex. Even if there was, losing all your data in e.g. mail/drive will have significant consequences.
Russia can wage wars on natural resource selling alone, it only needs to keep the gas and oil flowing through the infrastructure. All those private companies' activities the government sees mostly as a distraction, it doesn't give a damn about them (until they get in the way). They don't matter much.
It's very much unlike the Western economies where the private companies drive the economy. Russia is more like a giant oil and gas pipe with military industrial complex around that.
> exception of VK, there isn't really any step-in competition to Yandex
If we talk about city services (taxi, delivery, online shopping) there are lots of other players. Search/mail/social — then yeah, apart from VK not many. And VK is in fact state-owned. Yandex is not. So if Yandex leaves the scene, the only game in town would be state-owned. This only reinforces the evil regime.
> That's why part of my suggestion is to burn the equipment/infrastructure and delete the code.
It's pretty unrealistic. You can do it in small company, easy. In a huge decentralized company I don't know how one could even pull that off. There simply isn't a way to "delete all the code", nor a single place you could burn all the servers. It just doesn't have a kill switch. And the moment you try that, the government swoops in and goodbye the company.
> And the only thing stopping them now from doing that is that Yandex is not nationalized. Yeah, sure.
If Yandex gets nationalized, the government will replace the management and the uncooperative employees. Most of them would just leave the day it happens. It won't be Yandex anymore of course. That is essentially the same as killing the company, but worse, as the remnants could still be used for evil.
With sanctions it can't.
> So if Yandex leaves the scene, the only game in town would be state-owned. This only reinforces the evil regime.
It doesn't. Nationalization of companies rarely works well. Even then they can be hurt, made unprofitable, forcing the evil regime to divert resources.
> In a huge decentralized company I don't know how one could even pull that off.
A lot of things are not that decentralized. GitHub/GitLab is actually central, just delete it. Dev machines can be wiped out remotely. Private keys, certs, credentials are stored somewhere more or less centrally. Delete the user data on the servers.
You can make a lot of damage. It might not be perfect, somewhere git clones might survive, but it will cause a major outage/data loss.
> And the moment you try that, the government swoops in and goodbye the company.
You overestimate the ability of state to react quickly enough. If you plan ahead, this can be pulled off in short time.
> That is essentially the same as killing the company
So what? You're somehow attached to keeping the company afloat. It has no value compared to hundreds of people being killed daily in the war as we speak.
It does not need to "go well". All the government needs is control. They have VK (controlled by Putin's people). They will be happy with either outcome with Yandex — kill Yandex entirely, and people will just switch to using VK services. Make Yandex controlled by the government, and then its resources will be used for evil purposes. So either way it favors the government, reducing overall freedom.
> It has no value
It has the value. I insist that the net profit from "killing Yandex" is strictly negative, as it has not even zero effect on preventing actual people from getting killed — the actual effect would be the other way around.
> With sanctions it can't.
Unfortunately, not true. Even if Europe stops buying Russian resources today, the remaining profits from selling to China, India and etc. would cover the expenses. The oil and gas prices will greatly rise (it already happens), so that would compensate the losing of the European markets.
Russian Terrorist Regime *
As long as we're going on tangents, according to the Zach Vorhies leak, Google censors lots and lots of topics for blatantly political reasons.
However, this also implies that Yandex, as a company, cannot be trusted. It's not the researcher's fault, but they simply aren't allowed to work in a way that doesn't reinforced the Russian government's bias. As usual, the Russian government is the real villain here, but its authoritarian rule "infects" any company and country it has control over.
It can be assumed that the people working for Yandex are also victims of their abusive government, but that doesn't change the fact that their work is unlikely to be trusted outside the Russian sphere of influence.
But... They chose to obey.
It's the choice that matters.
To the best of my knowledge, they are a Russian company - it's not like they can just tell the truth and move away from Russia that easily, so I think (and hope?) they're just playing a political game.
What would Google do in their position? Idk
Nevertheless, they had many years before the war to start marking their news as 'Official'. Or sell the news service. They certainly could have done so. This would have solved their image problems.
In a similar vain, Microsoft has censored "tank man" from their image search (and that of all their image search customers, such as DuckDuckGo). Google is a more transparent about their censorship, usually showing a link or explanation why they remove certain information at the bottom of the page, but it still reflects the values of western civilisation, for example by delisting Russian propaganda such as RT.
These biases are everywhere in all research into this field. The Russian situation is obviously worse than that in many other countries, but you should never forget the bias that AI models from free countries have been trained with either.
>The ex-head of news at Russia's largest internet company has advice for his former colleagues: quit.
>Lev Gershenzon worked at Yandex in various roles for four years, according to his LinkedIn profile. He took to Facebook early Tuesday morning to warn people still working at the company — which is one of the largest search engines in Russia — that it was contributing to the censorship of the country's invasion into Ukraine.
>"The fact that a significant part of the Russian population may believe that there is no war is the basis and driving force of this war," Gershenzon wrote, also tagging six of his former coworkers. "Today, Yandex is a key element in hiding information about war. Every day and hour of such "news" costs human lives. And you, my former colleagues, are also responsible for this."
>Yandex’s former head of news accused the company of being a ‘key element in hiding information’ from Russians about the war in Ukraine.
3) Result of Yandex's slower crawler and default display mode, although the effect is as described: https://twitter.com/maryilyushina/status/1510930537187319813...
I don't think thats so different from other countries which also have a (partially overlapping) list of whats not allowed.
Normally, when people think about that they say "well pictures of naked children are morally wrong, whereas talking about LGBTQ stuff is fine". But people in other parts of the world might have different morals and might think the other way around.
- Disparage or belittle victims of violence or tragedy.
- Deny an atrocity.
- We don’t allow content that promotes terrorist or extremist acts, which includes recruitment, inciting violence, or the celebration of terrorist attacks.
Now I don't think these are bad rules, but they are rules that very much depend on the official narrative. A terrorist to one is a freedom fighter to another. These are rules that can be applied as wanted.
Their government does. They empower it. Just to be clear, it is their army, and their government doing the deed. They elected, they pay salaries to.
And you can back this up how?
If you are so conscious about consuming tainted fruits the only way to escape is to be living on some deserted island catching your own food.
What is your problem?
The difference between holding values, and holding values when convenient rather sums up the entirety of human history in one phrase.
Can't say the same about HN, it's one of the few places that seems to have kept its sanity (for now?)
But yes, there is, sadly, some discrimination. It's got nothing to do with ethnicity though; it's the same thing that happened to ordinary Germans in 1939-1945, and for the same reasons.
Yandex News is IIRC the biggest news media in Russia.
It filtered all results on protests and opposition resources leaving only government propaganda. Same with war. Filtering not meaning downranking. Just straight up not showing.
Editors were fired for not staying in line until it was completely sterilized and filled with pro-war propaganda.
Working in Yandex is being complicit with it.
In my opinion it is not punishment to stop a relationship if the basis of that relationship was destroyed deliberately by one side.
> punishment: the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offence.
Then you can play all you want with language to make it say what you'd like but it's pointless.
If you still mantain that the purpose is deterrence, then you must be a fool or worse, since it never works! Can't you learn from the past?
Before you even dig out some article like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/28...
I will make an important point: sanctions CAN work only to prevent something from happening. Once that happened, e.g. the war started, there's no sanction that can stop it and that's exactly when sanctions stop being a deterrent and start being a punishment.
They are pretty effective at preventing future wars. This war happened only because Russia wasn't crippled enough after 2014.
you can't really blame the companies for not wanting to be associated in any way with a nazist regime genociding a neighboring country.
And Starbucks or Mercedes pulling out of Russia isn't punishment. It is freedom of association and economic activity. Russians are whining about "punishment" because they have no idea about freedom, and that is them getting a bit of taste of it. They think they can plaster whole country with their swastika - "Z" - in enthusiastic support of the bloody genocide while the whole word shouldn't be able to express its disgust at those happenings.
Especially funny how Russians are cry-baby style whining about supposed violation of their property rights by the West sanctions while Russians have been violating property rights of more than 40 million of Ukrainians (even if we don't consider all the mass killing and raping of civilians that Russians have been doing there). The deep and profound disintegration of any morals in my old country is stunning.
>or issuing sanctions on private individuals.
due to the size of their wealth and the de-facto rules of economic activity in Russia those aren't private wealth of private individuals - they are integral part of that nazist regime, and thus they are guilty too.
And for the sanctioned Russian government officials - that is for example the Roskosmos CEO Rogozin, who is one of the main founders of the Russian Nazi movement "Motherland" (people from which has since taken prominent roles across the Russian government and the ruling Party) and who is one of the most prominent voices around Putin and the Putin's favorite, giving a Nazi salute and the end of his Nazi speech at the Russian Nazi march in Moscow. The specific phrase they all give Nazi salute to is "Glory to Russia!".
Not even seeing the irony. What did they expect in response to bombing, pillaging, mass rape? Friendly hug?
What did they expect? Probably indifference, same reaction to any war crime committed by the west so far.
If it were not for NATO, Russian rapists would already be in Tallinn, Vilnius, Helsinki. Claiming they were offended by historical injustices therefore women should be raped and men shot dead ("denazified").
Not the people in Donbass and Crimea apparently.
> Russian rapists
Oh please, quit the blatant Lyudmila Denisova propaganda. She was fired by your own government for all the falsehood she spread.
Russian soldiers have been shooting civilians at will (it is called "safari" in Russian army, and those Bucha streets - Yablunska and Vokzalnaya - with the bodies lying along the street is an example of such a "safari"). That would be an unique miracle in history if the soldiers wouldn't rape given such power in such conditions (for example those mass rapes by Soviet soldiers - 2 million of women were raped - back then in Germany in 1945 illustrate a result of such a power by the occupying force). And there is no miracle - just google Ukrainian rapes.
I'm not suggesting there have been no rapes or that Russians are the good guys. Just that the reports of mass rapes were fabricated (Denisova admitted she thought it would help Ukraine obtain more sympathy and weapons from the west).
Because most of those "everyone's" are not facing the choices themselves and are basically keyboard warriors. Let's see what they say when they'll be asked to sacrifice their own well being to be on a "high moral ground".
As a relatively neutral party in all of this whose country hasn't tainted itself (but who nevertheless spent all my live under a similar autocracy), I can't help but shake my head at keyboard revolutionaries who definitely would have overthrown the regime, if only they lived in Russia. You just have no freaking idea what you're talking about. Guard your democracy as best you can so you don't have to find out.
If you look at Snowden and Assange, that ship has sailed.
No, I think that's very naive.
To elaborate: At some stage, that becomes the only acceptable alternative; not doing so is morally culpable.
The world learned that in 1945, two ways:
1) "I was only following orders" was deemed not a valid excuse at the Nürnberg trials; not refusing orders like that is complicity; and
2) Germany as a whole was de-Nazified. Just like Russia needs to be now. (But more thoroughly: in Germany's case, it was an aberration of a dozen years; in Russia's, it's a millennium of unbroken history of totalitarianism.)
Too bad the world seems to have forgotten those lessons since then.
Russian police is notorious for selling logs, private data or access and also selling databases on a black market.
Why are you so surprised? This is exactly how most of the population behaves everywhere. People go about their business and "support" criminal actions of their governments all the time. This includes the West. Our governments have no problems exterminating, starving and displacing people (as long as they're the "right" people to mess with) while the majority of the population is going on merrily about their business. And Europe keeps buying Russian stuff even now while "Ukrainians are being killed". Where are the mass protests and fights with the police?
Things might change when "messing" with people will ALWAYS have the consequences for ANY country. But this is not what is happening and is unlikely to change. We have no extra terrestrial entity to police us in impartial way.
It's high time to bring "but US bombed Iraq". Classic playbook.
No one likes hypocrisy, especially when it is coming from the same westerners that at most protested for a few weeks back in 2003 when their own countries bombed us for 2 decades, that are now calling for other people to get arrested and possibly tortured/executed by putin's regime because that's just the right thing(tm) to do to stop the war. It would be laughable if it wasn't despicable.
"Yes hundreds of thousands of Muslims died and are still dying, but bringing it up or asking me to do anything about is fallacious! Checkmate"
As you said, who cares about debate tricks when people in the middle east are still dying from the war on terror as we spead? Why are you holding other people to standards that you don't even pretend to hold yourself to? You are expecting people to get arrested to prevent deaths and talk about the situation in ukraine, but I guess making you uncomfortable with "whataboutism" is the limit?
Probably move if that's anywhere near a possibility, and if not, cowardly stay as unnoticeable as possible. I know that at least in Finland Russian refugees are mostly welcome (although the border might be closed right now), even if they probably will face a lot of scrutiny from various authorities for obvious reasons. Most certainly it's nothing like the attention such people would face in Russia.
We fondly remember even the smallest acts of defiance that ordinary Germans acted out against their regime during 1933-1945. We all would like to be those people in times of crisis, but obviously most of us are not. They were probably ultimately pretty futile acts during that time, though, but put together with all the other actions that happened against the Nazis played a significant grander role. And we know that more than a few significant Jewish scientists and engineers fled from Nazi Germany and made significant contributions to the war effort. For instance, one guy called Einstein.
What should russians do you ask? Fight. I did it in Ukraine in 2004. Then in 2014. I didn't run from cops, I didn't let them take my friends. But regardless, now we pay with our lives, being subjected to genocide because of russian cowardliness.
because so far they are all just paying for the genocide.
Russian IT and media were showered with relatively high wages to stay quiet while last semblance of elections was finally destroyed, independent media was took over by pro-Putin oligarchs and activists were crushed or murdered.
As was the sarcastic saying coined recently, "if you are apolitical then bullets don't hit you".
>The model is published under the Apache 2.0 license that permits both research and commercial use
you should be fine
Lots of things have to be cleared for backdoors, Intel and AMD are scary with their built-in ME and whatever AMD had, I can't exactly remember, proprietary hardware in general is very scary outside the US due to surveillance and possible backdoors, it's kind of weird. Same goes for China, though they don't surveil foreigners exactly as hard, at least here they don't. It's not exactly an ideal situation and I think there should be agreements done internationally on stuff like this to keep the US and China out of our devices or allowing them to kindly fuck off entirely.
Not exactly the same kind of taint though, your products aren't as much morally tainted as they are simply dangerous to use, like little telescreens you have to carry around.
Kolmogorov complexity is (I hope) untainted.
Also, Hilbert’s problems are not untainted (and he never flew Nazi Germany!).
Edit: I would like to see more details in addition to size and languages (en, ru) about training data. For example, did they use their own Yandex.news (a cesspool of propoganda)?